Ep. 59 A Life of Learning with Martha Zirker, the Woman I call Mom

All right, friends, I am here with an extra special guest. You finally get to meet my mother, the one, the only, Miss Martha Zirker. So, mom, why don't you go ahead and jump in and introduce yourself to our friends?

Well, we've been looking forward to this for a while, and it finally worked. And so I am I'm pretty excited. We just had a nice conversation about your goals and what you're doing and so proud of you. So, yeah, I'll introduce myself. My full name is Martha Louise Backlund Zerker, and I grew up in Southern California. So I was a California girl and I met Kent D Zirker at BYU. And he was a Washington farm boy. And people wondered if a city girl and a farm boy could get together and be okay. But we were fine. But I was a senior, and I was getting ready to graduate, and I had three big choices. I was thinking of serving a mission, a service mission for our church, the LDS Church. I had earned my degree. I was graduating with a degree in education, and my roommates and I were going to rent a house from a professor going on sabbatical. And we were going to be these first year teachers. And we had that all planned. Well, some of them went and got engaged and left the scene, and then there was this guy in the picture, and we had to think about that. But we did get engaged and got married that summer. We got married on June 13. In this last summer or June 13, we celebrated our 50th anniversary. We have five sons and one daughter. Brant, Eric, Kevin, Travis, Matt, and of course, you, Lacey. Together, all of you planned and hosted a wonderful reunion and celebration a few weeks ago, the beginning of August. And it had been five years since we had all been together, but every single person was there. We have 29 plus one grandchildren. And people were coming all the way from Washington to Idaho to Colorado to Massachusetts to Maryland, and all points in between that every single person was know, we had a wonderful weekend together, didn't we? It was just great.

It was awesome. And with this, it was something that we as the siblings kind of took over the planning on and said, okay, I know what you guys want to do. Mom and dad, yes, you want it simple. You wanted it over zoom. But we wanted to do something a little bit more, and we wanted to come home to Moscow. And so I think it was a really fun experience to plan. It wasn't always easy, right? It was a little stressful at points, but it was fun to work together as siblings and to come and find that common ground of what we each wanted out of the experience and to kind of see how we worked together so that we weren't just like, no, we're going to do this? No, I don't care what you want. Kind of like we worked through that. So it was fun.

There were a lot of spreadsheets and delegation and zoom meetings, and we did we were able to sit back and enjoy it. And so we wanted to thank you for that. We look back at the pictures, that moment in time that won't be repeated for a while, and there we all are. And so that was it. Yeah. Thank you.

You are welcome. It was fun. Okay, so I want to jump in here real quick. You mentioned that you graduated with your degree in education, but you had to get to college first, so let's go there. Was this important in your family for you to go to college, or was this just a flippant decision to a.

Really it was in the cards for a long time. I mentioned growing up in California, and I grew up in Torrance, and our back fence was the border of a small town called Lameda, California. And my dad's name was Carl Leroy backlund. And my mom was Louise Bacher Backlund. And my sister Linda was seven years older than I was and John was five years older. So I was the youngest of three children, and we lived really close to family. I lived right across the street from my dad's parents, from my grandparents, my uncles and aunts and cousins. And my mother's mother lived close enough that she could come and visit on the weekends or we would go to her apartment in Long Beach on Saturdays. But it was a very 1950s, 1960s type of childhood. I played outside a lot. There was a lot of family friends, camping, fishing, neighbors, church activities, had a lot of support. But when I was about two or three years old, my parents decided that my mom would get a job. And the primary goal was they wanted to be in a position financially where they could ensure that Linda, John and myself and Linda, John and I could all go to college. Straight out of high school, my dad started working as a postal worker, and his career was in that one job. That's not what you see anymore. So he advanced from a letter carrier to a supervisor to assistant to a postmaster, but that was straight out of high school. He passed that test and did that for his whole life. And my mom, she was 19 when she was married and graduated from high school and worked in a little variety shop department store and got married. So she didn't have the opportunity for extended education due to her family and moving and high school. But my parents worked know this is hard. I'll start crying at some point in this interview.

We're going to cry several times. My listeners know that Lacey cries.

That's okay. It might as well be right now. But they did. They worked really hard to provide a nice home and cars and all the extras. And I grew up on the same street, living in three different houses. My dad built our first little house. We moved in another house, and then we moved into a really nice house across the street. But we kept those other houses as rentals, and my dad and mom worked really hard to keep up on those rentals, and it provided some extra income. So everything they did was pointed to the future of their children to ensure that we would have that opportunity to go to college. So that's what happened. Do you want me to go into that right now?

Well, I wanted to point out was this the norm at that stage?

Yeah, at that point in time. My friends were going to college after high school. The friends or the group I was with was very pro, extended education, college, moving on out of high school. And so it was but then I think back to Grandma and Grandpa Zirker, to your other grandparents, Kent's mom and dad, and they grew up during the same exact time in eastern Utah. But Grandpa went to college, and then when he came back from the military, he took advantage of that and went to college. Grandma even went out for a year or two to Brigham Young University in Provo. That was a big deal for her family. So there were people at the time in the 1930s and 40s who were going to college, but my mom, I don't think, would have just didn't have the opportunity. I don't even know that it was a dream of hers. And my dad had a career that started, and it was a good paying career and it lasted for over 30 years, and he enjoyed it. And he would get professional development and extra classes. He taught classes. So he was always pursuing education that way, but as a formal college education, no, they did not. So that was just due to their circumstances and they wanted to make sure that we had the opportunity to go.

They were very intentional then about that's.

The word I was trying to think of earlier, it was intentional. The goal was there. We knew the goal was there.

Yeah. And then they worked hard to get to that goal and provide it so that you would have different circumstances.

Yes.

So that has carried over, obviously, into our family. So this is the ripple effect that we talk about, is their choices, their very deliberate, intentional choices carried over into your life, your education, dad's life, dad's education, and then the choices that you guys made together so that we could have that education. As.

Know, my two siblings, Linda, John and I, were also very intentional that our children would have that same opportunity and their spouses also were that same way. And it was know, Linda and her husband and John and his wife and Kent and I, we were all on the same page as far as providing opportunity for our children to be able to go and extend their education however they chose beyond high school. My sister and her husband have six children. My brother and his wife have four children, and we have six children. So you take the three siblings, you do the math with the 16 grandchildren of Carl and Louise right there. That's 19 people that were given the gift of extended education because of that legacy, because of the initial choices of my parents. And then you take those 19 grandchildren and their children now are having different choices for extended education beyond high school. But the choice is there, and they're making it available for them, they're helping them. So that's the ripple effect right there.

Yes, and that's within the family ripple effect. But let's go to the fact that you chose to go into education and so did Aunt Linda. What led you to become a teacher? How did you make that decision?

Linda left. She's seven years older, so she's about 18. I'm about eleven years old at that time. And she left to go to Brick and Young University in provo majoring in elementary ed. And realistically, that was in the early 1960s. There were probably three viable options for young women at that time. You could be a teacher, a nurse, a secretary. They weren't the only options, but they were probably the main choices. And so I watched my sister become a teacher, and I went and visited her at college. I went to her classroom and saw what it was like, and maybe I followed her path, but not as her little sister, because I always thought of myself as a teacher or educator. I played school with my friends. I set up a system to check out my books like a librarian. My grandma backlund asked me to tutor a younger cousin who was struggling in school. And I just liked the environment, the chalkboards and chalk and books, and working in the cafeteria in elementary school with my friend and being on student council, recess, all of it. And for me, it wasn't like an expected or forced or I was settling. It was a natural choice for me to go to Brigham Young University as an elementary ed major. I never looked back on that choice because it served me well throughout the years, very much.

So. You go to BYU, you graduate, let's go into your teaching career, and also your family is starting at this point, too. So how do those two parallel and work together?

Well, I'll backtrack just for a moment with one experience I had several years after graduating. We were at the University of Utah for a medical reason, for one of our children, and in walks a former college friend, an acquaintance, and I recognized her. And it was just by chance. And at that time, it was 1977, and she was a doctor. She was graduating from University of Utah, and we talked about how hard that career choice was her for a woman at that time, in the late 60s, early 70s, but she did it. And I was just so impressed with her. She was this very quiet, very humble young woman in college. She didn't make a splash, you didn't notice her, she wasn't standing up on soapbox about women's rights and everything, but I was just so proud of her that she had followed her dream and made that choice. And I just looked her up yesterday and she's this great pediatrician in Ogden, Utah, with just raving reviews about her, and that was her choice and that was her family. It appears know, she stayed being a doctor and as a single woman has a wonderful career. But I just looked at her and I just thought, wow, you did know, you made a choice and it was hard, but you did it. So now, going ahead to my own teaching career, kent had one more year to finish his degree at school. So I taught for one year in fourth grade, and it was at the school where I had done my student teaching. So I knew the people, knew the building. It was great. But it was my first year of marriage, my first year as a teacher, and we were expecting our first baby. So to put it mildly, that was quite an adventure, a lot of learning and growth. I always wondered, did I do right by those children? But I was looking again through some paperwork and I found letters from a young girl who became a pen pal after I left. I only was there for one year, and then I left. And that was probably common for them to have 1st, 2nd year teachers go in and out as spouses were completing degrees. But we developed a real friendship. She needed a friend and she wrote letters for several years. We wrote back and forth. I've wondered what happened to her now. She'd be a peer, I was going to say.

Did you look her up at all?

Oh, over the years I did. And other students, I would look them up or I'd see their names online or on pictures or in issues of newspapers. And as you get older, the years get closer to where you become up here, and it's interesting to see what they did. But I thought there were a few in that class as inexperienced as I was and young as I was, connected with a few and made a difference. And so that was a good year. Then I stayed home for 14 years, and we had five sons and one daughter. And that was interesting because during that time I taught the young children in a church class called Primary, and they were nine year olds. They were the same ones like fourth graders that I had taught in school. And then I became a cub scout band leader for the bear group, who were nine year old boys. So for the next 14 years, I'm involved teaching eight and nine year olds, which is just where I was in my teaching, and I used a lot of the same teaching techniques and strategies and skills in those endeavors. I didn't put aside my teaching for 14 years. I was still using what I had learned in different capacities, but with the same age groups.

Well. And I think it's interesting that this last year, as I've been subbing, the class that I honed in on and became kind of the natural sub for was a group of fourth grade individuals and that age group and especially the young men in that classroom who needed little extra guidance or support and friendship. Because I do have a household of boys as well. Interesting that that age group came up for me also.

Yeah, it was fun. It was nice to feel like I was still using my education. It didn't go on a back burner. It was there on a daily basis, just raising children, working with children, working with other adults, going to meetings, developing curriculum for cub scouts, all of that. Yeah. And that went on for a long time, so I didn't feel like I wasted my degree at all at that point.

No, I think it's very also natural to tie in being an educator and motherhood those two pair very well together. So you did the 14 year stint as a stay at home mom, kind of, quote unquote stay at home. Right now. At what point do you decide to go back?

Well, in 1990, kent lost his job, and so it was time for me to go back and teach full time. But two years prior to that, I had the impression that I should go certify for the state of idaho and go to summer school. Unfortunately, I live right by the university of idaho. That was easy to do, to go take classes during the summer, and I was able to get my teaching certificate for the state of idaho. And those next two years, I subbed wait, push pause.

You say it was easy to do, like proximity. It was easy to do. So that would have been 1988.

Yes.

So at that point, I'm six years old. So your youngest is six, your oldest is 14. Around there.

Right.

So you've got six kids in that time frame, and you're saying it's easy?

Well, I'll get to the non easy part in a second. Yeah. I enjoyed the classes. It was interesting. I had to take a beginning literature class because they didn't think that my BYU degree had enough literature. So I'm sitting with these young people early in the morning discussing literature, but I enjoyed the readings we were doing and the classes, and then I had to take another curriculum class. That was interesting also, but yeah, I'm sitting there writing out papers at baseball games on the Bleachers early in the morning. We didn't have a computer. I'm typing this. I'm writing out by longhand and editing it, pencil and paper in every moment I have, and then typing it and turning it in, because at summer school, the classes are condensed. And, um, we had only lived in Moscow for two years at that point, so everything was pretty new in Moscow. But we were really involved that summer. But we all pulled together as a family to make it happen, too.

And the reason being, you felt inspired, and so you took a leap of faith.

Yes.

So how did it develop your faith through that process?

It just kind of came naturally. Like I said, we'd been here two years, and I'd already met teachers at the school and become involved through parent teacher association, but subbing was a good way to do it, to bridge the gap. And so for two years, I did. I took jobs throughout all the schools in the school district, private and public. And it was a good way for me to be reacquainted with the environment of the school, with the terminology and the vocabulary and the language and all the acronyms again, to develop connections. So that in 1990, when I needed to get a part time job or a full time position, I had that networking in place and was able to get a job. So it was two years prior to that to get recertified, to do the subbing, to make the connections, when all of a sudden, 1990 rolled around, and we're starting over literally from ground zero, everything was in place to go and work again. That doesn't mean it was easy. That's the part where I'll say this was the 1990s were hard. We were in survival mode at that point. Yes, but I had something in place. But my insurance policy was my education degree. My college degree was our insurance policy at that time, and we cashed in on it. I wasn't making a lot of money, but I was able to ensure that our family had health insurance benefits plus a little bit more. But you know, this. We started lawn mowing business. You guys were delivering newspapers after school and on the weekends. Kent had several part time jobs before he got a full time job and had to work up in that full time job to a salary that was going to help support our family. It was a lean time. So, yeah, I said it was easy to go back to school. Well, comparison to the 90s, it was the boys were starting to graduate from high school, going on college, going on church missions. You were entering high school. We wanted to provide an opportunity for you to have a semester program in Nauvoo, Illinois, to be away. People were getting married. We were in the middle of Eagle Scout projects and church activities. And school activities and sports. So that's where we have to give kudos to you as kids. And this is where I'll cry again. We would not have made it without our children. You know, mowing those wet, sloppy lawns was not fun. And we'd get home late at night, and you still did your homework, and you still got good grades in school, and all of you qualified to go to college. But that was the goal. The timing wasn't great, but the goal was still the same. So we had to change how we met that goal and work a little harder. And financially, it was a mess, but we made it, and we came out the other end.

Okay, on your side a mess. But let's look at it from 25 years down the road and what has come of that. Because you raise six kids that know how to work. Yes.

The work ethic was number one.

Right. We know how to work. When we were I was talking to Kevin about the 50th, and he was asking us questions about mom and dad and that sort of thing. And I went back to lawn mowing. And that was one of my first experiences in entrepreneurship, because at one point, I was looking at the calendar. Dad would have his job, but he'd lay out the calendar of the different lawns to take care of and the customers to take care of. And I looked at it was like, I can do this. And so he let me take over the scheduling. And then I then had a piece in kind of the management side of a business. Like a ginormous piece. Right. But taking in that responsibility of doing that then teaches me different aspects of business and how to run a business. And working with clients and customers.

The six of you had to do the public relations part of this with working with all of our customers and talking, being able to go up to the door, knock on a door and talk to them, or maybe if someone was complaining a little bit, go back and do the job over again and do it right. And meanwhile, you had a relationship with all of your newspaper customers. They knew you by name. And we had developed a relationship with each and every one of our 150 customers. And we kept those even as people were going off to college, we kept those routes because it was pocket money for you guys to have a little bit of your own personal money and change to do what you didn't pay a lot. And times have changed. But I think the fact that through thick and thin, we knew we had to stick through it and do it, and we did. And the rewards have been really good.

Yeah. And the lessons taught from it. Seth and I were talking about college educations and financing for that and how did that happen? And when we look back at it, that was the lawn care business. And working together as a family, that's how you financed all of that. So that's a benefit of working together as a family financially, but not easy. But also, there's just so many other positives that probably couldn't see in that time.

Well, it was years later and we were sitting and someone made a remark about the Zerker boys. The Zerker boys always seemed to have a car to drive. Well, it was a 1966 ranchero that kind of went through the ranks. Everybody had the privilege of driving it, but that was provided. And we paid for the gas and insurance. But he said, wow, they've got that lawn mowing business. They have a car, they always look nice, they get to do things. They must have just been rolling in the dough. And I had to set him straight and say, sorry, but they don't get paid one penny for mowing those lawns. Whatever we earn goes to whomever's in college on a mission, whoever needs it in the family, the family itself, just to survive. And it kind of took him back a minute because from the outside, he thought that the six of you had a pretty sweet gig mowing the lawns, having a car, looking nice, having some privileges. He didn't realize behind the scenes that this was a family effort. And no, you did not get paid one penny for mowing those lawns. It went into the kitty and to the pot for our whole family or college tuition or for a monthly mission. Stipend and everyone worked together for the common good. Perception is interesting, what people saw on the outside, we were those little ducks with our feet just paddling, really going crazy under the surface of the water, looking pretty calm on top of the water, but we were paddling.

Yeah. And through that paddling, we learned some life lessons. Like we just joke, working together as siblings while mowing lawns. I mean, we wanted to kill each other not half the time, but there were times we just wanted to throttle each other, right? And we had to do that while remaining professional on someone's lawn. And you just want to huck someone at another kid. There were times where we left each other to walk home. I remember being a truck driver and leaving one of my siblings because he was being dumb. And he booked it to the spot where he was trying to get home before I was and I was driving and he booked it out of the neighborhood. And I just remember thinking, how in the world did he get there? And I'm still to this day pretty sure where he stopped and got a ride home the rest of the way. But that taught, I think we had to go through that fiery furnace of affliction within sibling relationship so that when you see what we are able to work on together, and how we've been able to come together throughout the years. Yes.

I mean, you planned the 50th, the six of you together gone on Zooms and did spreadsheets and delegations, and our.

Personalities have not changed.

No. And you worked through those personalities, and it came off, and it was wonderful. I was going to say in the middle of all this, too. Every five years, a teacher needs to recertify with six additional credits, college credits in their field. And so from 1990 on, until I retired, I was always doing professional development. That meant taking in university students into my classroom as student teachers or interns, beginning, see if they want to be teachers or not, come spend 30 hours in the classroom. It meant taking courses at the university again or things that were offered. So on the side, every five years, you had to make sure you had those six credits so that you could recertify in the state of Idaho. So my education was ongoing during all of this. Also, besides teaching kids, doing all the paperwork as a teacher, that's what I.

Remember in the 90s, is during the summer, mom went to school at the University of Idaho. Mom was taking classes because you did further your education. It wasn't just, I have my bachelor's and we're done. There was a continuous process to further and gain more education.

Well, and once everyone was gone, I counted backwards from when we thought we would retire, and I knew I had to, within a few years, complete a master's degree. And that master's degree, yeah, it was extended learning. I'm a lifelong learner, so that wasn't going to be hard. But it was also to ensure now that financially that Kent and I would have a solid retirement, and I needed to contribute to that retirement. Had a little bit of later start saving because of his losing a job and having to rebuild, but he really did a good job of taking advantage of savings plans through employment. But I added another layer of safety and insurance by getting my master's degree. So that meant going back and getting 30 additional credits in 18 months and having that work out time wise. So when I would retire, I would have that in place. I was one of the few, I was only of one or two in our building who did not have a master's degree. I mean, you gathered credits, recertifying, but to get a formal graduate program into that, get accepted and get your master's.

Degree, that's pretty amazing.

That was an expense, but it was an expense that has paid back itself.

You call that an investment?

We call that an investment.

Yes, it was an investment. But at what age did you start your Master's?

Well, I started it around the year 2006, and I received just about halfway through 2006. Adria was the baby. That's how I gauge it. And 2007, and I graduated in 2008. It. Only took 18 months. I pushed the credits going to night classes. I could do online classes at that point, which helped a lot. I could do it at night at home, during the summers when we traveled. As long as I had Internet access, I could do online classes. And that helped a lot, which is amazing.

If you think back when you were paper pencil yes. And sitting on the baseball bleachers, handwriting paper. Now you're not even going to the classroom. You're on an online class.

About half of them were live classes, and about half were online classes.

Okay, so if I'm doing the math correctly, were you about 55, 56, around there and getting a master's? Seth, when he got his master's, he was considered an older student at the rival age of 25 or something, whatever he was when he got his master's. And so now you have someone in the classroom who has these years of experience as an educator and a mother and just life experience.

Exactly.

It brings a different perspective to the classroom.

Yeah, I was at that point as a graduate, I'm not the only one, but I'm also in the classroom with other students who were high school students with our children, and I was reconnecting with high school friends of our kids who were in the same classes, getting graduate degrees. So that was interesting. The very first night I go there and I see someone, I go, oh, hi. He played baseball with Matt, but he proved to be a good ally to help me go into a research class where I had not had the experience he had had for the last four or five years. I was doing some catch up work on that kind of a class, and he was a good resource to use. He was really helpful.

So when you talk about that, you were doing some catch up work, there's a mental mind game that goes into all of this. How did you manage all of that?

I was kind of on my own. Others at school were doing it in groups, and so they'd get together and study, and they work through the process together. But I was on my own to do it. But one class at a time. That's what you do. Three credits, ten classes, three credits each. You just do it one class at a time. And you have an advisor that's there to help also. And you have professors that you can talk to also. And classes were smaller, more intimate, so you could a little more personal. And the people sitting in your group around the table were really kind to help too, because the vocabulary starts coming out in a research class, and I'm going, I have some catch up work here to do. So I had to dig in and kind of catch up a little bit there.

And people are kind because you put out that effort to make the connections with them. Typically, people aren't super kind and willing to help a stony brick wall. Right. You have to walk into a situation, be willing to ask questions, be willing to receive help, make connections, which is what you do. And so all of this we haven't really talked about your experience at McDonald elementary. So when you went back, you started subbing, but then you land at McDonald.

And my first two years, I was a specialist as a health and art specialist, and that was a 0.6. That was my foot in the door. And then good friend said, you're moving into a classroom, which was a little scary, but I did it, and I went into third grade, and I stayed in that same classroom. It was my home for 22 years. I loved third grade. There I am again, teaching eight and nine year olds. I love the curriculum. I love their attitudes toward learning. Yeah, I had to zip up jackets and help put on boots and gloves still. But I had two great colleagues, and we worked well together as a team. One was in her thirty s, one was in her forty s, and I'm in my forty s and fifty s and her twenty s. Thirty s and forty s. And then we went 30, 40, and 50. And then we went 50 and 60. And the environment was a good environment at the school, with the administration and the colleagues and friends I made, there was a good environment, and it was our neighborhood school. It's where you guys went to school.

Yes. And you helped create that environment. It wasn't just the administration. You were well known, Mrs. Zurker. You were well known within that community. So it's not just them. You were a very valuable piece of that.

Thank you for that, because let's go.

I can't remember what year this was, but what award did you receive at.

The beginning of 2013, 2014, something came up that the u of I, at a football game wanted to recognize local educators. So it was McDonald's turn to send someone to the game. So we're at a staff meeting, so everyone could go as a whole group. And finally someone said, well, who's going to retire next? And I raised my hand. I said, all right, I'm making an announcement. This is my last year teaching third grade. I will be retiring at the end of this year. They said, okay, let's send Martha. She's retiring. Let's send her. And so it was it was the beginning of a really good last year. I went to the football game at u of I. Our former neighbor presented the award on the field, and it was to recognize local educators in Moscow, which thank you, U of I, for doing that. We had had some rough years as teachers, and our identity, our state leaders weren't supporting us. We had gone through some tough years of teachers not being respected and educators. And then at the end of the year, two friends that I did not know, they did this. They wrote letters, nominating me for the Teacher of the Year for elementary teachers. And that was within our own teacher educator group that we had an awards night each year. And so those two sweet women sent letters in. And I was given the privilege of being elementary Teacher of the Year at the end of my teaching career. It just was very nice recognition of.

My peers, given the privilege, earned the privilege, worked the privilege.

Yeah, well, you can't do it by yourself. You're as good as the people that surround you. And if you're all working again for a common cause and a goal, and you're working hard to help develop children and create a positive relationship in a really safe, secure environment for them during the day, it takes all of us working together to do that. So I always felt like I was accepting it on behalf of my peers at that point, but I was the one being singled out. It was a nice honor. I appreciated it after 25 years of.

Teaching well, and that mindset and that philosophy goes back to what Carl and Louise started, is that we worked together, not just them. But you said you grew up in this 1950s 60s childhood, and you had family on the street. You had friends and relatives, and on this same street and this environment that they've created, this goes back to Carl and Louise being very intentional with what they created. Because when you mentioned that the 1950s 60s childhood, that's what you and dad provided for us. There were lean years, but it was provided for us. We lived in a safe neighborhood. When we landed in Moscow, that's our community. And we played kick the can. We ran around the neighborhood. We did shenanigans right. We lived around relatives. Then having the cousins come and having Grandma Grandpa Zerker come. That, to me, is ideal. And that has carried forward what you guys created. It's what we're trying to create with our little family, doing the best that we can in our environment. But you can see the ripple effect of the intentional choices of Carl and Louise. And I imagine if we were to interview them, there would be intentional choices made by their parents that led one direction or another.

Oh, there were. Starting with my father's parents to immigrate to the United States. It was an intentional choice to make a better life. They had a good life with family, but it wasn't where they lived in Sweden. It wasn't going to provide opportunities for a 19 year old young woman. And I am just totally amazed by her choices and the ripple effect it had. And she was so proud of her us. My brother served a mission in Sweden, where my grandmother came from, and she was not a member of our faith. But she understood the importance of what he was doing by returning to Sweden. It was just full circle to do that. And that ripple effect of her choice to come to America definitely set up opportunities for her three sons and for us as siblings and all the grandchildren. Great, great. The ripple effect is huge. I found a quote about ripple effect. You're a quote person.

I was going to say like mother, like daughter.

This is from Mother Teresa. I alone cannot change the world, but I can cast a stone across the waters to create many know I have others too. You educate a woman, you educate a generation. Education is not preparation for life. Education is life itself. And when we were watching married students coming to the U of I to University of Idaho, it seemed like they checked out of life for three or four years sometimes. And their thought process was, well, I'm going to work really hard on my degree, and then I'll re enter life once I graduate and we'll get this beautiful house and all of these things. But for right now, I'm taking myself out of life and then I'll check back in again. That didn't bode too well for a lot of people with that attitude. And so it said, education is not preparation for life. Education is life itself. I mean, you're still living life while you're going through the process of that. And then it said, find something you're passionate about and keep tremendously interested in it. And that was Julia Child. And I think being a lifelong learner, that's what it is. And it says one of the biggest reasons why education is important is that it helps us become better versions of ourselves. That's maybe what I could see myself developing when I was going to college. All of a sudden I was having to make decisions. I wasn't extremely helpful at home, I will admit that. But all of a sudden, I'm put into an environment with a roommate and I'm having to learn about cooking, cleaning, shopping on a limited budget, finances, organizing my personal study, time, deadlines, social interactions, serving, sharing my personal talents, being prepared to support myself with a satisfying career choice, and respecting the goals of my parents. And I had a lot of life lessons to learn besides just going to class and completing homework assignments. I think education is security. We talked about the insurance policy. We've seen this happen too many times, seen it happen again this week, either through divorce, death, or financial cris. Sometimes women are left on their own to move ahead. A young mother in her 20s with four young children had a college degree, but with the support of her parents, went on to get an advanced dental degree. And her parents helped I think you still need that layer of support. Her parents helped her with those four children while she went on to get her advanced degree. And put herself in a place that she could care for herself and her children and address their future and have one stressful thing off the plate and seen that happen over and over where from one day to the next, a situation changes ours, it was loss of a job. Others it's divorce, others, it's death. A death of a spouse or family member. And it puts you in a world of a lot of decisions to make. But if you can get one of those decisions where, you know, you can go get gainful employment or help support your family financially and yourself through a stressful time, it's worth it for a woman to be educated.

Yes.

And I was going to say, it doesn't have to be from ages 18 to 21. Anyone can have extended education at any point in their life. And it doesn't always have to be, quote, a college track education. You can gain life skills along the way that would help you financially and be very satisfying as a career. Doesn't always have to be a college track.

Well, and it shows up in your educational path. Right. And we went back and focused on the fact that you were handwriting papers and now you were doing this on a computer through Internet and online classes. Who's to say that because it didn't happen right now that you won't do it in the future? Now, you mentioned when you went to college, you had to learn these other life skills and contribute to a roommate and doing different tasks that maybe you hadn't learned at home. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that's like a beautiful message for moms who are like, oh, my, I have to teach you this before you go to college, right? I have to get you the self sufficient person who can do their laundry, who can do the dishes, who can participate in all this. I have to teach you all of this right now.

Yes.

That'd be great if we could bestow all of this wisdom upon our children at that time while they're in our homes. But just because you don't learn something at a certain point in your life doesn't mean you won't ever learn it.

No. I had the work ethic.

Exactly.

And I also had an older roommate who was wonderful. I also had a sister that was 80 miles away but I could visit on the weekend. I had a brother in town who was very supportive, and I had a community of roommates, and I just watched them. I was already a form of an independent thinker and person taking care of myself and had the work ethic and the skills. But now I had other people relying on me to use their $5 a week in grocery money and $30 total and not come back to them and say, oops, we missed budgeting and we don't have any food and I need more money from you. You had to learn a lot of life skills. You had to learn interpersonal relationships, dating, friendships, people in classes. There are a lot of life lessons going on here. By going and extending your education yes.

And out from under your parents watchful eye. This is somewhere where you had to go and use what you've been given and the talents you have already developed and expand on them in an environment where it was up to you.

And no one was going to wake me up to go to class and be on time. It was my choice to go to class or go to church or go to activities. So everything I had learned up to those 18 years, how was I going to use that? And honored the legacy of my grandparents and my parents at the same time.

And I would point out that there's not cell phones, there's not a quick text.

It was letters, handwritten letters and phone calls that were long distance that cost money.

Yes.

I think there was only one or two times I actually called and asked my mom and said, I need a little bit more money. I mean, they were giving me an allowance for the month, and I had to budget that money with food and school supplies and personal products and everything else. And I think there were just a couple of times when I called and asked and said, I just need a little more. Well, I didn't have a checking account. She wrote a check. I cashed it at the bookstore, and I had cold hard cash in my wallet. And when the cold hard cash was gone, it was gone.

Yeah. Okay. I love it.

I know we're moving into other well.

But I love it because it's interesting to see how the choices decisions of Carl Louise have carried throughout our life, and I see how they're continuing as I raise my kids and my brood of boys. Right. So my one last question is, what's one message you want to leave with our listeners? And I don't know if you've thought about this or not, but your listeners being your grandkids.

Well, I was okay till you said that. It's been so much fun. We have a granddaughter, our oldest, who just graduated with a degree in elementary ed, and she set up a classroom for second grade. She got her first job and sent me a picture the night of parents coming. And here is this colorful, beautifully organized classroom waiting for 28 2nd graders. And she already has in her mind how she's going to set up a community of learners in her classroom. And the first six weeks, I'm going to do this, and then we're going to do this. She's so excited. And then another granddaughter text and said, grandma, I'm going to be a teacher. And they don't all have to be teachers, but they need to be able to serve others and use the God given talents and special gifts they've been given to help make the world a better place. And I don't really care what they do. I'm going to love walking in that classroom with just check it out. How about this? How about that? 28 2nd graders, they go, oh, boy, you've got your hands full. But she's so ready. And whatever our 29 plus one grandchildren choose to do is just fine with us as long as they're happy, productive people who are finding fulfillment in life but are serving others along the way and making a difference, and they're continuing to learn. I like them to be lifelong learners, to always pick up something new or a skill or to read or just be fascinated by nature and what's around them, to enjoy being outdoors. That's how I grew up. My dad gave us a legacy of enjoying being in nature and just finding peace and comfort in their faith with each other as cousins and as siblings, and we couldn't ask for more. They don't all have to go to four years of college and come out with a degree. My mother was 54 when she passed away, and a few weeks before she passed away, my brother graduated from law school, and my sister had graduated with a degree in elementary ed and had been teaching second grade for a while, and I had taught first that first year, and then we had our first son. But my mother, at age 54, died just a few weeks after realizing her goal, and she maybe didn't get to enjoy all the grandchildren and everything, but she worked hard, and we honor her legacy by the lives we live now and my father's very much so.

And for those who have read the magazine that's Louise and I did a story on Louise through some information that you shared with me that we had just gathered from the family about her intentional choices and how that set her up for her finding peace in her diagnosis when it was offered to her.

See, there again, she didn't know that was coming. That wasn't part of the plan. And they retired early, and that definitely was not part of the plan, but she was able to see through the goals she had set. When I was two or three years old.

Yeah. So the actions of a mother I think there was a quote that you all right here. When you educate a woman, you educate a generation. And I would say that Grandma Louise had a life education.

Yes.

And that has gone on now. We see Halle and the other grandkids going on to continue that generational. So, all right, mom, you've got to.

Go pick up some kids. I understand.

I do have to go get them because we are trying to create this 1950s and 1960s childhood for them. But thank you.

Thank you. It's been wonderful. Appreciate all the work you're doing to help women right now. There's so many opportunities for us to reinforce our confidence and to build our self esteem and our self accomplidence as women and to address our strengths and our weaknesses and to feel the support and love of others that are going through the same journey with us at the same time. Yeah, that's what I continue to do, is find opportunities to be a lifelong learner in all areas of my life. During COVID that was hard, but that's what I fell back on, was to keep myself going with as much normalcy as possible and to address the different areas of my life. And that's what this podcast is good for to help women realize their strengths and to help them in their day to day lives.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

What movie is it from?

You got mel.

Thank yours. I said thank yours. Okay, well, we love you, too, and we're grateful for you guys. See you.