Ep. 35 The Journey to Unconditional Love with Melissa Nakaya The Candid Kiwi

I'm Lacey Jones, and this is Elevate the Individual Episode 35 The Journey to Unconditional Love with Melissa Nakaya, The Candid Kiwi. Do you ever stop and reflect on the different connections you have made with other people throughout your life? It really is remarkable how many people we can meet in a lifetime and the effect their words and actions can have on us. The more I dig into this podcast and ponder on who to interview and what topics to discuss, the more evident it becomes that I've always been surrounded by powerful women who are seeking to do good while also navigating the natural trials and challenges of being human. Over the past couple of years, I have been listening to the Candid Kiwi podcast produced by my friend Melissa Nakaya. Melissa is a native Kiwi from New Zealand living in the US. Who shares her stories as well as the stories of others to connect us across the globe. Melissa and I met when our husbands were attending the University of Idaho. While our husbands furthered their studies, we and so many of our friends were navigating the early years of motherhood. The years since that time have been full of growth and change, trials, love, challenges, and new opportunities. Melissa started her podcast as a form of healing from a lifetime of conditional love towards herself. She has created a beautiful collection of honest and vulnerable stories through interviews with her dear friends and family. Her gift and ability to share stories has strengthened me as I set out to create and develop this podcast. It is because of Melissa that I finally took the first steps and hit record. I hope you enjoy our conversation and feel Melissa's genuine love for others and deep rooted strength. As we jump into our conversation, you will hear us discussing some of the struggles that go into creating a podcast. And next week, we'll continue our conversation about developing different talents.

Yeah. Why am I still doing the podcast? In the last week with all of this, I'm like, I've thought to myself, man, I should just not do it. And so then you got in contact with me and you were saying, you know, I really like your podcast, and you shared these notes with me and stuff, and I was talking to Drew, my husband, and I was like, I guess I need to keep doing it. And you asked me questions about why I do it and stuff, and the reason why I originally did it was in my episode one, which you pointed out was because I've always liked stories as a kid. And number one, number two, 2020 was tumultuous. And with being an empath, I felt that really deeply and heavily and wanted to do some good in the world. And number three, I think that as we learn how to love ourselves and expose ourselves a little bit to other people, inherently, it's almost like this service that I've been doing to myself to be vulnerable and to show that life isn't perfect and also to turn around and allow others to see that other people's lives are full of stories. Here's a snippet into this person's story. You never know what people are going through, because I found 2020, like I was saying in that first episode, to be a lot of feelings. People were choosing sides or were being pushed into choosing sides. Is COVID real? Isn't it? Should we be going to school? Shouldn't we should we be wearing masks? Shouldn't we should we be vaccinated? Shouldn't we and then political side of things. Should we vote for Trump or should we vote for Biden? Make a choice. Make a choice. You know what I mean? And then black lives matter. Is this something that we need to support in this way, or should we support it in that way? You have to choose. You have to choose. In forcing each other as humans to choose, we were really mean.

Amen.

We were really mean. And I'm like, man, what can I do to unite us together again in my own little silly world here, to help people to see the beauty in each other. Even when I don't agree with everything you do, because you name a person out there, Lacey, that you agree with everything that they do, there's no happen. And I love him and have been together with I don't agree with everything that he does. I'm like, that was dumb.

I can only imagine. I imagine that you let him know. Right?

He lets me know, too. And it's like, we'll be 22 years this July, so I don't know, why fix something that isn't broke? Right?

Right. Yes. We were being asked to choose sides in a lot of different ways, and it was tumultuous in trying to figure out, well, I don't agree 100% with that, and I don't agree 100% with that. And so in your stories that you do with people, I love that you do show the snippets of them, but you show the reality of who they are, and you don't gloss over anything, which is what we need to hear. And so that's what you've done, even as you started this. When you talk about your own journey, you're not glossing over anything. And I just remember early on when you were posting and I was trying to get outside and walk more, we had, like our neighborhood is kind of a circle, and so I would turn on yours and just kind of walk and listen. And then I'm like, okay, I'm going to walk, listen, and cry. Because your stories are real and they're raw, and there's no covering up a whole lot. And so I see it as who you are. But is that a challenge to be so real and raw on your podcast?

I think for me, being real has always been something that I've always been, but it's been taken differently by different people. So if anyone knows me, they know, okay, Melissa's, straight up gangster going to tell you exactly what she feels. So don't be offended by it. It's not you. She does that to everybody. Some people really love that and some people don't. But my problem, which I'm learning to do with age, is making sure that I am straight up and honest, but with love around it. And sometimes I can be straight up and honest without any love around it. And so that can feel quite sticky for people. And so for me, being vulnerable and honest has been, in a way, easy for me to do, but only with a certain part of me. Like this podcast has pulled out the shadows and the things that I struggle with that I've talked to nobody about nobody. And because I've always been honest and raw with some parts of me, there's parts that I feel comfortable and that are socially acceptable to be struggling with. I'm raw about that. But then nobody wants to get into the stickiness of some things and being vulnerable with that, and that was really hard. Here's the reason why. Because you can choose to be vulnerable to people that are safe. And I recommend doing that because when you're vulnerable to people that aren't safe, it hurts you. And so doing a podcast and being super raw and vulnerable, you don't know who's listening. It doesn't tell me. List me a name of people who are listening. I just know 100 people have listened to this. 200 people have listened to this. And I'm like, someone came up to me a couple of weeks ago and said, I've been listening to your podcast. I just really feel as if I need to give you a hug. I don't know why he needs to give me a hug. Like, I'm not sure which one he listened to. He just said that and then moved on to something else. And I think to myself, man, I have said so much personal stuff and this guy is my daughter's boyfriend's father. You know what I mean? And so it's like, what have I said? And it's almost like people know this intimate stuff about you and you know nothing about them. And you wonder to yourself, I wonder how they see me now, or if they or the judgments maybe that come with that. But so far it's only been positive. Like, I haven't received a negative comment to my face or online about the things that I've revealed. But I knew going into it that if I was going to share this stuff, it could be met with some people that just simply disagree with it. And if they do disagree with it, they haven't told me. Maybe for various reasons, I've been told I'm intimidating.

Okay, possibly, yeah. But what you said earlier is you are presenting it with love. There's a genuineness to the stories and the podcast and the things that you share, it's not like you said, it's not like in your face. And it is wrapped with love. And so I think people receive that, I know I do. Maybe you say something that I don't agree with, but you're presenting it in a way where it's like, oh, I can think about that.

Right?

I can think about it, I can chew on it. I can figure out why I agree or don't agree because of how you're presenting it. And that gentleman who gave you a hug, I was thinking there could possibly be two reasons. Number one, a thank you.

Right?

There's so much to thank you for in sharing these stories, right? Is it the message that you're sharing? Is it the fact that you're being real and raw and vulnerable? And then that man can identify with it and say, oh, okay, I'm not alone in this way, if she's experiencing these things. And just thank you for showing up and being that voice. And so it's interesting. And maybe he just needed to say thank you because you helped heal something in him through your stories. I don't know. We could pontificate on it all day long as to why he did. But the fact that you said you wrap it in love, you can say a lot of things right, that are sticky if you wrap it in love and just like pure love, not like.

Fake kind of stuff. Yeah, for sure. Okay.

I think you're going to have to kind of recap some of the details because there's one episode where you talk about your body image experience and just like, journey that you've gone on. So remind me where you were and a little bit about that story, if you know which one I'm talking about.

Yeah, it's episode 17 and it's my food and body story. I knew I was going to share this because I had been going to. I'm a mom. I have four kids. I have boy, girl, boy, girl. I've got one that's just about to graduate and then I've got an eleven year old and two in between. And when my daughter, who's now she's going to turn 16 this year, when she was going to turn into a teenager, I realized that I needed to do something to be a better mom. And isn't that what we all tell ourselves? Almost on a daily basis? But I knew that if I had to, I couldn't just tell her that she was beautiful and she was perfect the way she was because I was raised with love and I was never told by my mom that I didn't look good and she thought I was amazing and everything. Yet I still struggled with my body image and for various reasons. And so I knew that if I simply told my daughters that they were beautiful the way that they were, that they might not fully believe it. And why is that? Because they had to believe it. You have to believe that you are worthy in here. Because I also have had my husband who has been amazing for the whole time and loves me for who I am as well, and all of the changes that we've been through with kids and everything. He loves me unconditionally. But I realized that's not enough, which is really unfortunate. It's super unfortunate. And I had to start working on myself, so I did. So my struggles were with food and with body image. So I would diet, of course, so much. And I would binge and have off days where I would binge on all the things I had been thinking about all week. So my relationship with food was toxic because food was basically the enemy, because I had to eat food in order to survive. But if it was a certain amount of food or a certain kind of food, it was bad, it was good. And there was no recognition for taste, no recognition for just food being just food. It was all calculated, all calculated by diet after diet after diet. And of course, society tells us that we are supposed to be a certain age to be beautiful, a certain size, to be beautiful. Sometimes people feel as if a certain color to be beautiful. And I think that I was wrapped up in that because at the age of five, I looked down when I was sitting in shorts and realized my legs were bigger than the girl beside me. And I started realizing my legs are bigger than normal. Is that acceptable or not? And society told me, no. The messages that validated my thoughts were, no, you have to be this size in order to be accepted. And that's just me. I'm not saying that everyone struggles with this. This is just my journey.

I would say I'm finding truth in a lot of what you're saying. So it may be your journey, but I think that a lot of people identify and have parallel journeys with that.

Yeah. And so I started realizing that if I could be smaller, then I could be loved more, accepted more, and seen as successful, beautiful. And I just didn't come up with the stuff by myself, Lacey. I was completely validated by the world. People magazines, TV shows. I mean, that is what makes you powerful and successful. If you are a sexy, in shape young woman, you have power against men. In society, you are viewed as beautiful. And in that comes control and power. And I haven't realized any of this until therapy. I mean, I wasn't thinking that as a five year old. I wasn't thinking to have power over boys. I wasn't thinking that. I mean, this has all just come out through constant therapy and beautiful people that have helped me. But that is the message that I got, at least. And so my worthiness was based on my body size. Yet I know that I'm an awesome person because I was so talented at these other things. So if you were to see me and know me, you would think, she's confident, she's talented, she's beautiful, she's on fire. But inside myself, deep down inside myself, while I believed I was good at those things and I was confident in certain areas of my life, I constantly, constantly struggle with my body and food. Constantly like, what are you eating that for? Your body isn't good enough. You're fat. Like, you're the fattest person in this room. Everybody sees it. How can you be taken seriously? Like, who could love everyone's looking? And I'd love to say that nobody cares. Nobody's looking. Everyone just loves you for you. But I've also been validated that people are looking. They are judging your body. They are because of things that people have said to me. People have said, oh, are you still going to the gym?

Really?

What they're saying is, you've gained weight. I've noticed what's going on. You know what I mean? So I would love to be like, no, everybody just loves me no matter what size I am. But people notice and they say things just like they notice and say things if I've lost weight. Wow, you look amazing. You're obviously a hard worker. These are all things that validate the truth that if you are smaller, you are more accepted and you are worthy of society's love. And it's chaos to women and men to be told that your worthiness is based on your size. And so what do we do? What does our brain do? Our brain's like, okay, well, then you need to be thin. We need this love. We need to feel this worthiness. And I'll tell you what, Lacey, I've been all sizes. Well, I haven't been a size one, but I've been like, about a size four six, which is pretty small for me, all the way up to probably a size 16. And none of those sizes, not one did I feel worthy of love for my body.

There was not a magic number. Never.

When I was a size six, I'll be like, my next goal is to be a size four. If I'm a size four, then I know I'll be happy. I know I will. It's false. It is completely false. And for me, at least, it was completely false. And I look back on pictures over my life and how beautiful I am in each stage and how beautiful I am. And I'm really sad that I was constantly thinking about my body and food in every stage. It's like, it's this thing in my head constantly. So you see pictures of me outdoors, having a good time, thinking about my body. There's pictures of me at my graduation. I've been thinking about I was thinking about my body by the time I got into my 40s because I'm 45 right now. So by the time I turned 40 and my daughter was coming into 13. So let's circle back to this whole thing. I was like, It's enough, it's enough, it's enough. I'm so over this. I'm so over it. I don't love myself fully. I love myself partially, which means that I love myself conditionally. Love this part of me. I love this part of me. I love this part of me, but I don't love this part of me. So I have learned to love myself conditionally. And that's what society does to us, Lacey. Society teaches us to love ourselves on the condition of and you put whatever it is, that your thing is right there for me. Society loves me on the condition that I look this certain way. That's what I felt deep in my heart. But for other people listening, it'll be other stuff, whatever your thing is. And it was enough. It was enough. I was so tired. I was so tired of dieting, so tired of food being the enemy, so tired of constantly looking in the mirror and focusing on the things that aren't perfect. It was enough. And I'm like, if I don't get on top of this, my daughters are going to do the same thing. And I can't do that. I can't. And so I started working on myself.

Well, isn't that kind of what led you to this podcast, too, to share kind of your healing journey in a lot of different ways? And what's interesting is as you've been able to heal and work on healing, I don't know that there's ever a moment where we're like, yes, I'm healed, right?

I am not healed right.

But it's a journey we work on. But through your journey of healing yourself, you've been able to help your daughters, your sons, like your husband, your family, right? Because you're showing up in a certain way that helps promote them and encourages them to heal different parts. And then the people that you reach out to through your stories, they are some heart wrenching stories, right? And you've given them a platform to talk and to share, and just that, I think, is an opportunity to help them heal. So by working on you, you've taken it from you to your family, to your community, your online community, and you've talked about you're a global community, right, with the different people that you know and your different experiences. And so that's amazing that's the whole purpose of what I'm looking at here is like, let's start with the one individual. Let's elevate them so that they can do that ripple effect and domino effect to help others. And so you share this moment. Is it Iceland, where you were? Where were you?

Yeah. So Jerome and I were in Iceland for our 20th wedding anniversary. It was amazing. I would recommend it to everyone, but Iceland is very European, and I've never been to any European countries. And so while they were beautiful people, lots of different languages and stuff. We went into places where you would have to get change lake. We went into hot pools and we went into camping grounds where there were showers and stuff. And there was no individual stalls. There was at the hot poles. But I didn't know about it until later on. And I'm glad that I didn't see it because this experience that I had in there I needed, which was really good. And otherwise I would have like, darted over to the individual store. But what you do is when you camp, there's communal showers. And at this hot pool place, there was a communal shower. And nobody seems to really have a problem with it. I learned in this first of all, I went to this campsite first, and you put in your tokens and then you have a shower. There's not too many people in the shower. None. We were coming in at midnight because the light never really goes down because we went in July, and so in Iceland's, very at the top of the world. And so the lighting's different depending on when you go. And so it's always dusk. It's never dark in July. And so we came in at midnight because it's still light. And we were doing stuff, and I was like, no one's going to be having a shower now. So I get ready and then right when I'm able to go have a shower, this lady walks in and I'm like, I've got my towel on, I'm ready to go in. I'm like, what do I do? Do I sit and do I wait for her to have a shower like some weird stalker? Or do I just get in there with her and just have a shower? And I thought to myself, she doesn't care about looking at my body. She doesn't know me. She's a stranger. I'll never see her again. That helped me to get the courage to do it. And it'd be different if I had went to, say, my church and there was a communal shower there, and I know I'm going to see everyone the next day.

You know what I mean? It's a little bit vulnerable on different levels, right?

Let's put that out there. And so I went in and I showered with her in there completely. That's so vulnerable for me, Lacey, because my body is such a huge, I don't know, sense of shame almost because of how I viewed my body through society's eyes. And so there was a sense of shame in how my body looked. And that's why I needed to cover it up. And to be able to shower with that one lady in that shower that one night was quite freeing. Not that I looked at her body, but just being in the same space naked with another person female, excuse me, it'll be different with a male female. It was very freeing. And so when I went to this hot pole place. It was packed, packed, packed, packed. I mean, there was like ten to twelve women showering and multiple women coming in and out of that area, coming in from the poles, going out from the poles. And you had to shower before you went out into the pools. And so it was busy. It was almost like a bus stop of showering.

Like it was like a bus stop.

Of naked woman bodies. And it was fascinating to me. And so I was standing there almost like shadow boxing, like, okay, all right, I'm going to do this. Nobody cares. Everyone's just, I need to do this. And it was crazy because I'm like, okay, you got this, Mills. It's going to be good.

I can only pitch it.

Yeah. And I'm just like, I'm going to go as fast as I can. But then I went in there. I'm naked, naked, naked, naked, and I'm in there with like these twelve other females ranging from five year old girls to 85 year old women. And it's just all of us naked, having a shower. And I didn't go quick. I started realizing they've got the shampoo and conditioner. I'm like, I want to shampoo and condition my hair. I've been camping for the last like three. I'm going to do that too. And I just had this huge wave of emotion come over me that a, nobody cares about your body in this setting anyway over in Iceland. So it was a really safe space for me to be able to have this experience, and B, that all these women's bodies were so beautiful. You can't help when you're washing your hair and you're getting it all out and stuff, of course you're scanning the room. And so we're all seeing each other's bodies. I didn't feel perverted. I didn't feel like I was being stared at ever. But it's just general washing and stuff. And the thing that came over me was how beautiful we as females, how beautiful our bodies are. Like my baby girl's body, a five year old's body, a ten year old girl body, a 15 year old body, a 25, and so on, even up to the 85 year old cute woman that was showering in there and all of her beautiful bats that I can't even remember. And I thought to myself, man, this is so powerful for me to be having this experience right now, to be able to see past what society. It was almost like a look, like a look. I believe in heavenly Father and God. And so it was almost like a way for me to see us as women. How our Heavenly Father sees us and how not naked. I'm not saying he sees us naked, but he sees us as beautiful, period. He loves us unconditionally, period. Like the Lord's love or whoever it is that you worship or whatever your thing is, find that thing that loves you unconditionally. And for me, it was God. That's what saved me through my childhood and helped me to continue to not fall into any deeper darkness was because I always knew I was loved unconditionally by my Heavenly Father. He never put conditions on his love. I knew I could always go to Him, always talk to Him. He was always there for me. He's blessed me constantly. And so I could always revert back to that constant unconditional love from Him, even though I was getting messages from society. You are only loved conditionally. I had that unconditional love from Heavenly Father, from Drew, from certain friends, and that is what helped me get through and be who I am and not completely lose myself or kill myself. Or was that unconditional love that I felt, being a daughter of God and knowing that I am loved unconditionally to fight against that conditional love that society taught me to have? And in that moment in Iceland, I saw these women, how I feel like my Heavenly Father sees us completely beautiful, completely accepted, completely unequivocally loved no matter what and who and where you're at. And it was life changing. It was awesome. It was really cool. And that's part of the story that I share in that episode, episode 17.

Well, and I wasn't there, right? But because of your gift of several gifts, that you have a gift to tell stories like storytelling gift, right? You tell it so that it feels like we're right there. And because you had worked through this experience and I think at one point you mentioned your hesitation in that second setting. And I don't know if you said it on the podcast or what, but the line that sticks with me was, have you learned nothing through all of this? And I don't know if you said it or if that was just how the spirit spoke to me and the message that I needed to hear, but because of you sharing that experience now when I have those moments where, yeah, my body has changed, right, and it's gone, like you said, several different sizes. And I look back the sizes when I was smaller and think, yeah, I was like on top of it, right? I was strong and in control and I was getting after it and achieving, right? But then when I step away from that and my body is a different size now, all of a sudden my mental thoughts change. And so for me, that's what stuck was that line was, have you learned nothing? And you talked about our Heavenly Father's love for us and how it's unconditional. And so you've taken that experience and had to figure it out for yourself and had the experience. But then you used your gift too, of storytelling and your gift of creating a podcast, which is not easy to create a podcast, my friend, right? Like, you have to stick with it. And now you've. Again, blessed those who are listening. And maybe not everyone has issues with their body image and that sort of thing, but I would imagine about 99% of people do. And so you've been able to bless those people in a way that is just beautiful because you are, again, sharing your experiences with love and that is what helps heal all of us. Thank you. Right? Thank you for sharing that episode and for that experience because it is very vulnerable in several different realms.

Yeah, people have no idea. People have said, Gosh, I had no idea, because you don't share that kind of stuff. That's not something that you share. And in a way, there's safety in me sharing my stories to nobody in this cute little podcast. And it's safe to be able to do that too. I'm not in front of 1000, even though I actually do like public speaking. I actually would love to do that a lot, but it's different.

Oh, it'll happen. I totally picture you doing something like that because that is a gift you have. And I think that you are in the process of developing that and you will get there because your messages and the way that you deliver them will help to heal so many people. So don't you dare give up on that dream like it will happen. You're going to make it happen. Okay. There was another episode that I wanted to kind of focus on. This is one that my kids and I, we loved listening to this one, we were going camping and we needed something to listen to and I didn't want to just listen to music. Right. I love podcasts and stories, and so we turned yours on and we thoroughly love listening to your mom share about her childhood because she's got a way for storytelling as well. Right? I think you got that gift from her. But talk about maybe what it was like to share your mom's story.

Well, when my mom shared her story, I don't know 90% of the stuff that she shared. And so for me, it was awesome because I'm like, here I am, 45 year old woman. I've been with my mom for 45 years, had access to her, to her stories and stuff and know nothing. And so to me, it taught me that you can live and be with a person that's super important to you and not know certain parts of who they are. And so what a gift this podcast has been. For me to be able to have had my mom on and hear about things that she went through and did that I had no idea about and neither did any of my siblings. Because I think as mums, we share certain parts of ourself and our kids see certain parts of who we are as a mum. But our friends, our husband, they see different parts of who we are that we don't show. And this came up when I did my podcast with my husband. My daughter came up to me afterwards, and she was like, I've never heard dad laugh so much. I had knew nothing about his story. And again, it reiterated to me what a gift this podcast is, to be able to have my daughter and my children have their father's story for me, to be able to have part of my mom's story. And I think she's doing a four part series, and so she's going to.

Be I hope so. One of my kids, Brady, he's always talk, did her mom come on for like, part two yet? We want to listen to that good.

She just did zero to twelve, and I'm really glad. So usually when I do my podcast, I talk to people and then I do questions and then I record them. My mum was like, I've got this covered. You don't need to do anything. She's the only guest that did that. And I came on blind into that podcast episode because she told me she had it sus, she had it worked out. And so she comes on, she took control, and she did that episode the way she wanted to do it. I'm going to do it from zero to twelve, Melissa. And then next I'm going to 13 to marriage, and then I'm going to talk about and I'm like, yeah, sounds good. Whatever you want, mom. And so she came on, and I was just along for the ride. I had no idea what she was going to talk about, sort of, because I didn't know zero to twelve. I didn't know my mom's life. Zero to twelve. And so I came on there basically as a listener, like you and your family. I came on being like, Kay, what's my mom going to talk about? And I just kind of talked with her, and I was like, that's why when you hear me when I'm talking to her, and I'm like, what? Why did you do that? Or are you kidding me? Why did your mom just leave your brothers up in the tree? Because I had no idea. And I didn't talk to my mom beforehand. Zero preparation. And so she's telling me these stories, and I'm like, you guys, I'm like, Whoa, that's crazy. My reactions are so raw because I'm hearing it with you guys. I'm like, that is crazy, mom, like, how are you alive?

We loved it. And it was just such a stark contrast to how we're raising kids with indoor plumbing, even, right? The things that your mom different.

Yeah. Right, lacey 100% different. Yeah.

So that is also a gift you've now given your children. Like, you talk about yourself and your siblings, right? Because you have several siblings that probably needed to hear that experience as well. But now your kids and so your kids can listen to that. We talk about journaling, which I think you've been big into journaling and record keeping. And I know you always had your blog going and this is now an audio journal that your kids can just click on and instead of reading someone's journal, they can listen now to those experiences from your mom, which is a huge gift.

Yeah, I've always journaled ever since because I was the oldest of seven, my mom was all gun ho with the oldest and so she kept a journal. If you ask my fourth sibling, they probably don't have much that my mum wrote, but me, my mom, I was the first born, so I was gifted with her wanting to start and do things right and everything. I have a journal from zero until now. And so when blogging came out, I was like, yeah, this is me, I can journal online, it's easy, I can add pictures, this is awesome. But I have so many paper scrapbook journals from my whole life and so, yeah, having a podcast is an amazing way for me to be able to continue that journaling. And my dad was a big journaler. My dad was a big journaler and he has journals and since his death, we have copies of his journals and they are just a treasure. They are a treasure.

I was going to say, how did you preserve them and share them?

Yeah, my mom photocopied his journals times seven, and my brother has the original journals and then we have copies of the journals that I'll pull out, my kids will pull out. And funnily enough, I have an episode about my dad, but I did not pull out his journals until 17 years after he died. I couldn't do it. And then once I pulled them out and read his journals, it was almost like this flood was opened up for me to be able to love and accept and cry and read and learn and just opened up a part of my heart that I'd shut down. I'm like, no, I'm not reading his journals. I'm not reading it 17 years. And those journals are a huge gift and it's been awesome.

Yeah, which they're even more of a gift knowing how much you shut it down right, and revisited it. And then once you open it up.

Wish I could have got my dad's story on my podcast because I would love to hear his voice and be able to. And my my friend, I have an episode where I interview my high school art teacher brother Balky, who I'm dear friend with, and he just passed on a couple of months ago and his son got in contact with me and was like, I'm trying to find my dad's. Episode just a couple of weeks ago. Do you know where it is? And I gave it to him and he didn't say much, but I'm assuming that he just wanted to hear his dad's voice. And so you tell me that recording his father's story and isn't a huge blessing to his amori would call them mokupona. Here it's grandchildren. So for his mokupona and his children, what a blessing that episode is. And so do I care that you listen to it or not? Yeah, I do. But know, I know I'm not having thousands of people listen to it. Does that matter? No, because it matters to my mate. It matters to Jershon because he can click on that episode any day or night when he's missing his dad and he can hear his dad. And that's worth it to me. Even if I had ten listeners for that episode, which I didn't, there's a lot for that episode, but even if I had ten, it'd be worth it. Because of that, I had another episode. Matthew, he talks about how he was bullied and has been fighting depression and his wife got in contact with me afterwards and she's like, Melissa, I just can't even thank you enough for the story that Matthew talked about because he doesn't talk about it. He doesn't talk about his fight with depression much. His kids don't know. I mean, you must have been a safe enough place for him because we knew each other in childhood but mean, we wouldn't have much to do with each other. So for whatever reason, he felt safe to share with me everything that happened with his story to do with that. And his wife was like, it's so good for him and my kids to be able to hear him talk about that because he doesn't. I mean, you tell me even if there's ten people that listens to that, that that's not worth it to hear that feedback from his wife. And that's why we share stories and do this.

That's the big grand purpose of all of this. And recording and storytelling. Storytelling has been a huge aspect in cultures and civilizations throughout time, right? And so it's not to get the likes, it's not to get the listens. It's that the one person who needs to hear that story gets that story. Right? Because Brother B, you interviewed him and then you went to go visit him, right?

Yeah.

And how close was that to when he actually passed away?

Yeah, so I went and visited him last April when Australia opened up again. I got tickets straight away and I was finally able to see him in real life after a couple of decades. So it was awesome. It was really good to see him because him and I were really close. And this podcast, I hadn't been on Facebook or social media, so I hadn't been in contact with anyone from my high school years, hardly at all. Just a couple that I really wanted to be in contact with. And this podcast forced me to get onto social media because I needed to advertise my podcast. And in getting on Facebook and getting as many friends as what I could, the floodgates were open to all of the people back from high school and everybody around that I'd ever had association with on Facebook. And so that opened up. People were like, contact. I was talking to people that I hadn't talked to in, like I said, a couple of decades. And it was crazy. And Brother Balky was the same, and I often wondered where he was, how he was doing, because he's a massive influence on my heart, as you'll hear in his story. And so I was finally able and when I contacted him, when I first contacted him, he was like, oh, Melissa, my goodness, it's so good to hear from you. And he's like, Listen, I have something to tell you. I have cancer. And he was dying of cancer. And I just can't tell you the blessing that deciding within myself to start this podcast, which forced me to be on Facebook, which got me in contact with Brother Balky, who was dying of cancer. I mean, I just can't tell you how upset I would have been had I not been able to be a part of his life before he passed on. And so this array, this domino effect of blessings that's come from me listening to myself and knowing that this podcast needed to happen helped me to be able to get in contact with him, realize that he's got cancer. Make sure that the second Australia opened up, I was over there and spend I think it was three days with him and be able to just be around him constantly. And then just this past Christmas, so I went to New Zealand for a month. So just a couple of months ago, it was Thanksgiving, we were just getting the meals ready, like Drew's mom and sisters and brother, they were upstairs. They were getting everything on the table. And I get this phone call from Brother He, and he's laying in a place, and he's like, Melissa, I'm sick. I'm not doing well. I think I only have days left. I'm in a facility that's going to look after me until I die. But I wanted to make sure that I called you and that we had and that we talked and that I was able to talk to you before I passed on. That was one of the hardest things for me to do, because it's this craziness, right? Because I don't want to be such.

A sharp contrast to what you're experiencing, what he's experiencing.

Yeah. And I don't want to lose it because then that's a waste of a phone call. But then I don't want to be, like, heartless and pretend that this isn't going to so it was this flood of emotions. So I went from bawling my eyes out to laughing hysterically with him and us catching up and telling each other how much we love each other for the last time. It's surreal. It was really beautiful. And one of the hardest things I've done knowing that I will not see him again or be able to talk to him again. And it was brutal, but beautiful. And so then they're like, okay, dinner is ready. So I go upstairs for this Thanksgiving dinner.

Oh, by the way, come have some mashed potatoes and turkey.

Losing it. And so it was really a beautiful turn of events for me to be able to have this and be with him and be able to be there for the end. And then his son contacted me two or three weeks ago saying, I want to listen to my dad's podcast. Can you help me find it? And for me, just the full circle of this blessing that this podcast has been just with Brother Balky, that's just one there's. Every single story that I have on my podcast has a story of connection that I have with that person. It's been really amazing, and it's helped me with connecting to other people. Some people thought I was a certain way since listening to my podcast. Now they're like, oh, you're like us. Like, you're not perfect. You don't have it all put together. And I'm like, I can't believe you thought I did. I didn't think I pushed that story out there. But it's been a beautiful blessing of connections for me, for my family, and globally.

Yeah, amen. And you've developed your talent, which sometimes we can think our talents, we can use those to bless the lives of others, which you have done. But you mentioned full circle now, it has blessed your life by just taking that step to develop your talent when maybe you didn't know how to do a podcast or arranging. It's not easy to arrange guests to come on and do interviews and to find time that works for you and your guests. There's some arranging that goes on.

Like their technology. Like, what microphone do I do? What do I use to edit? I don't have any money. I don't get paid for this podcast. I don't have any minions doing all of this for me. My husband's busy and he doesn't have to do it. This is my dream. And so the questions and the help that I've gotten from people, but just the hours and hours and hours of research and stuff that I've had to do myself to be able to get this running has been a lot. It's not easy. It's not easy to by the time you talk to a person, figure it out, record it, edit it, get it out on social media and your blog, talk about it, it's ours. Every episode is ours. One episode is hours and hours.

And any talent that you're trying to develop, you're like, okay, make a plan. I'm just going to start. I don't have all the answers. I don't know how to do all this. But when you take that step, it just feels like, yeah, we're going to hit some roadblocks. But there's going to be doors that open, right? Like, you're doing the research that's work, and you're opening some of those doors. And what's interesting is, as I've been doing this, I have had doors open. I recently met a grad student at BYU through one of the podcasting groups I'm part of. They're developing a technology to improve efficiency in putting podcasts out, editing and the cleanup you have to do after an interview. All that kind of jazz, right? I actually am going to be interviewing her about her journey, getting her to that point of creating that software. And so it's just amazing to see where the journey takes you and what doors open as you take the first step of learning a new talent.

We'll pause our conversation right here and we'll pick it up next week as we continue the conversation about developing our talents. Enjoy your week, friends.